Authentication Question

[Pullenrock]

Do or can reproductions have a patina of some sort?...I mean does everything have Patina?...Under the scope?

[CliffJ]

Jon,
  Everything has patina in varied levels. When a piece of flint is knapped it starts to oxidize and if in the ground it also interacts (slowly) with the environment. A freshly-knapped point generally goes into a frame and has little chance to patinate in reaction to any environmental factors except air. So it will have very little perceptible change in the surface.
   Since you mention scopes- One of the best things that collectors can do is to study the pieces you pick up, to hone your perception of the patinization process. Even 400 year old triangles will show the changes brought on by water, soil, and dehydration of the rock. Harder lithics like quartz usually will show little perceptible change even after thousands of years. The one thing that collectors need to learn while looking for patina is to keep your scope set at 10 power unless you want to concentrate on a small spot then use 20 or 30 power. I have heard a couple people brag about their high powered scopes but much closer than 30X and everything looks old!

[Pullenrock]

Thanks Cliff great info and i totally understand...I snagged a 60X pocket microscope for coins and looked like everything had a patina to me... :laugh: I have a scope now and ive been seeing more clearly.Everything does have a patina..

[wmwallace]

Since you brought up the patina question, what do the artifakers use to give the appearance of patina?
  I had a dear friend who got the hose at an auction, telling many of us he bought a great hopewell point that was a no brainer because of the patina. It did indeed to the naked eye look naturally aged, but "not quite right" I guess is the best phrase I can add to this.
  Upon further inspection one of the group put a little force behind his thumb and whatever they put on this flint (flintridge material) started to roll up. Felt almost like a briwax material. Wondering if any others have experienced attempts at modern patina and could share to help others watch out for in future purchases.

[CliffJ]

William,
  A easier question would be "What DON'T artifakers put on points to give the appearance of patina?"
  But the partial answer to your question is-
Dirt, wax, woodstain, motor oil, dead animals,spray teflon or spray clearcoat with dirt, smoke, rust, powdered minerals, tumbling, sandblasting, algae in fishtank, grease, acid etching, alkali etching, ....there are more but my coffee's out.....actually, most modern pieces have NOTHING on them- but they still get sold.....
  So the next time a person looks at a picture and says they can see the patina on it- think to yourself- is it really patina they think they see?

[wmwallace]

I always like to hold the artifacts in hand but unless I have location, location, location and as much history as possible. Though they can fake that as easy as patina obviously you can at least check into it and track it some.
  I am in the process of purchasing a large collection that was originally that of Dr. Small from a store owner here at AH.com the stuff is Stark Co. Ohio or the majority of it. He hunted from the 40's through the 60's. The farm I live on I do not own but take care of the herd for rent. The owner is 70 years old and remembers from his boyhood a Dr. Small hunting the fields on this farm year after year. That makes me way more comfortable than the photos for sure.
  Cliff I am estatic to see involved with the conversation,as Dr. Small spent his retirement years in your neck of the woods and has some NC stuff from his short time hunting down there. So I might post some photos when I get to stuff for your help in identification. Now that I have rambled on I am not even certain that I am still on topic, other than the fact I can honestly say now, more than a few hours ago that it takes more than patina to reassure me. Unless of course I find it myself. Bill

[turkeytail]

People go to the extent of putting fakes in cow crap with a little lime for a couple years to obtain a fake patina.

[Pullenrock]

All Quite Interesting for who?...We the buyers..Us the Gatherers dont really matter..jn