Andice point authenticity

[Bushman B]

I recently purchased this point from (oops) eBay, before doing my homework on Baker and Bannerstone COAs. Now I’m well aware that the sellers flooding eBay with G10 museum quality COA everything are about as phony as you can get, but this point was purchased as a Native American artifact with no COA listed and no background information. I’m very leery of this due to the simple perfection of this point. Now I know how finely worked ancient points can be through some of my best personal finds, but this point has extremely uniform flaking on all sides of the blade that I can only imagine coming from indirect percussion. This point was listed as an Andice type and I know from some research that andice, calf creek and bell points all have the similar basal notching that extends deep into the point that can ONLY be done through indirect flaking with a thin rocker punch technique. So with that in the mix, my opinion is that indirect percussion across the whole point might make sense for an ancient maker. Anyways, thank you all for your information and opinions. I paid just over $200 for the point on eBay and with that price and the quality of the point, I truly would not be disappointed to find out that it’s fake 😜 it’s a beautiful point and it’s also the only artifact (or not) I’ve ever purchased.

[clovisoid]

Just looking at the sellers completed auctions, I'd say he buys points from a couple of different knappers. A couple of the points wouldn't stand out as obvious fakes (the right material, not huge, not the best ever found), but he's also sold a lot of 5" G10 Clovis points.

Could an authentic point worth thousands of dollars have slipped in? Sure, but there are enough collectors/shows in his area of Illinois that he'd likely be able sell authentic relics for more realistic prices.

[Garguy]

First, that's a very well made point, Almost right. I have probably handled as many andice as anyone alive. There are subtle things wrong. Nothing glaring but accumulative. In my opinion. From those pics, it is modern. Here is what I see and by no means am I declaring it bad though I suspect it is modern.

First there is no mineralization on it and the notches Almost always catch some..

Next,, I see a little surface that looks picked off like a flake didn't run..

Then the notches lean out.. its not unusual for andice to notch out toward the ear but they virtually always keep the base straight and widen the notch to do so..

Another hint is the flaking at the base.. Almost all anduce have remnants of bold crossing shots on the stem and ears from final preform prep..

Any one of these could be excepted but the accumulative effect would keep me from buying it.. makes my heart flutter though!

[Jon E. Busch]

Joshua and Steve hit the Nail on the Head! Nice looking Repro for sure though, but not for $200...

[Mattern]

I'll through this in. I have been really studying flake patterns lately. Andice usually have somewhat random flakes. I have not seen any with such perfect parallel cross over flakes. And the barbs are usually not identical. your point is just too perfect in my opinion. Kim

[Bushman B]

Thank you all for your input and information! I’ve learned a great deal since I started reading and posting on this forum and I’m always excited to see what everyone has to share 😃

[Garguy]

It sure is pretty.

[Bushman B]

My girlfriend has a better phone camera than me, I’ll try and get some better pics for you tomorrow 👍🏼😎

[Overshot]

This modern knapper who made this point has definitely studied real examples. Like Gar said, he almost got it right. Definitely lacks age for such an old piece. The $200 price tag for such a rare perfect piece is also suspect.

[Garguy]

Bring that sucker to Temple first week in June. Show it to Dwain Roger's and Bill German. You will get an answer quick. If good, you hit a jack pot... but don't get your hopes up.