Need help with an Effigy/fetish

[Chiefcw02]

This is a knapped "lizard?" effigy provided to me, along with a huge pile of other treasures, by a friend in hopes of identifying its culture of origin. I am stumped. I have seen Caddo effigies and Southwestern chert fetish objects but never anything knapped in quite this fashion. I do have some concerns as to its authenticity but those are tempered somewhat by the box of obviously authentic Paleo/Archaic points that accompanied the effigy. That being said, do any of you have experience with similar artifacts?
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. I plan on posting many more pics of the Points in this box of plenty she provided. It's going to take me days to sort and catalogue them. I cannot wait to get at it....
Thank you in advance for your assistance.....
NOTE: Please go to my photo album to see the effigy photo as it is too large for the forum.
Sorry


Moderator Note: profile album pictures no longer available

[wmwallace]

Edwin, in my humble opinion, and am far from an expert, I think you were right on your first hunch questioning its authenticity. I have never heard perfonally of effigies being knapped. But I am from NE Ohio so not from your region. Let some others give an opinion, as I said I do not claim to be an expert. But I feel that it is modern- Bill

[turkeytail]

Almost looks Mayan? Jade like material? Not alot of mineralization. Real iffy.

[Chiefcw02]

Thank you...
There was another "eagle shaped effigy" that also looks just too modern to be authentic and that coupled with my first impressions of the lizard still leads me to agree that it is a modern item.
Years ago I found a lizard fetish in New Mexico in an excavation but it was in-situ in a Pueblo 1 ruin and was made of soap-stone not knapped so it's authenticity was easier to establish.
Over the next few days/weeks I plan to post a number of pictures of the varied points this lady brought me to identify and I could sure use assistance with typing them.
  She isn't interested in selling so I don't think she is trying to push junk.
Thank you again,
Ed

[Chiefcw02]

I agree....just does not look right.
Thanks

[turkeytail]

Thunderbird Effigys almost ALWAYS repos. Only have seen one authentic one. Do you know what material that lizard is?

[greywolf22]

Here you go. Neat piece. Looks modern.

[CliffJ]

If I found that modern art in ANY collection (and they are in quite a few from the old days), I'd be scrutinizing even harder every single piece in that collection.

[Paleolution]

There are a few sources of these modern "effigies", but they are no more authentic than a craft store one flake wonders.  Usually, people don't realize they are moderns and they look cool in frames, so people pass them off as authentic, but it's for sure a modern craft.  There are some effigies in the SW and in Mexico, but they are very well made and don't follow this particular pattern.

[greywolf22]

There have been some documented lizzard effigys that have been found.
The information below comes from Lithic Casting Labs.
This polished chert lizard effigy was found in 1974 by Harry Messman in Calhoun County, Illinois near the town of Hardin. This is a well shaped example. The head and neck is fairly long and all the legs come to a point. The ends of the head and tail are more blunt. This lizard effigy is made of white Burlington chert and it measures 4 3/8 inches (11.1 cm) long.

This polished chert lizard has a fairly short head -and- neck was found in Illinois or Missouri. Its in a private collection. The legs are also squared at the ends rather than pointed. The front legs are also an eighth of an inch wider than the back legs. This lizard effigy is made of white Burlington chert and it measures 3 3/8 inches (8.6 cm) long.

This polished chert lizard effigy was found several yeas ago in Calhoun County, Illinois. The front legs on this example are angled forward and the ends of the legs are rounded, unlike the rear legs which are squared off on the ends. It also has a short head and neck. This chert lizard is made of white Burlington chert and it measures approximately 3 5/8 inches (9.2 cm) long.

  "The majority of these polished (lizard) effigies have been made from white or cream-buff flint that is found in this area (Missouri -and- Illinois) and usually in length from about three to four inches."----1967, by B. W. Stevens, "A Polished Lizard," Central States Archaeological Journal, vol. 14, no. 2, p. 57.
      "Their (polished lizards) center of their distribution seems to be central and southern Illinois, as well as eastern Missouri."----2005, by ?, "Lizard, Bird and Animal flint Effigies," Prehistoric American, vol. 39, no. 4, p. 3.
     "In several instances (in Hohokam culture) there is a curious ambiguity in the rendering of lizard forms. Certain examples from the Painted Rocks area and the Flagstaff region could be interpreted as human as readily as lizard representations."----1978, by E. Wesley Jernigan, "The Aymara," Jewelery of the prehistoric southwest, p. 57.
      "With the lizard theme (in Hohhokam culture), variations are almost as numerous as the pendants themselves.--- The manner in which a number of Classic period lizards resemble the needle pendant in shell supports the notion that the latter were pendants rather than utilitarian items"----1978, by E. Wesley Jernigan, "Jewelry Of The Prehistoric Southwest," p. 57.
      "(In a Pomo myth) Lizard succeeded in making human beings, all except their hands"----1933, by S. A. Barrett, "Pomo Myths," p. 81.
      "Amongst especially the Western Arunta (in central Australia) the medicine man in addition to the Atnongara stones (which are magic stones contained within the medicine man for as long as he retains his healing powers) is supposed to have a particular kind of lizard distributed through his body, which endows him with great suctorial power, such as the natives attribute to the lizard itself."---------1968, by Baldwin Spencer -and- F. J. Gillen, "The Native Tribes of Central Australia," pp. 525 -and- 531.
      "Ghosts, which often appeared in the guise of lizards, caimans, jaguars, deer, or deer-footed men, were the souls of wicked persons or of people who had not been buried according to prescribed rites."---------1946, by Alfred Metraux, "The Purf-Coroado Linguistic Family," Handbook of South American Indians, p. 529.
     "Freshly killed lizards are applied to injured limbs to reduce the swelling and draw out bad blood (The Aymara of Peru -and- Bolivia)---."----1946, by Harry Tschopik, Jr., "The Aymara," Handbook of South American Indians, p. 569.
Jack
   Attached files 

[wmwallace]

Very interesting reading Jack, that is what I love about this site. Chief we look forward to seeing her stuff posted and helping you out. Hopefully the lizard was just a fluke, although the thunderbird and eagle effigy will fall under modern business as well, like Mark said there are no recorded findings of them in any archeological record. Hope the rest of the stuff is true-BIll

[greywolf22]

WW
There have been Thunderbird Effigies found all made of shell. Would like to see a flint one if one is out there. Never seen one that was the real deal.
The information below is from Steve71
There is a thunderbird effigy made from mussel shell at the State Museum in Bismarck, ND.  Shell and bone thunderbird effigies are well documented in the Dakotas and northwestern Iowa.  The effigies come from prehistoric Mandan/Hidatsa village sites and date from AD 1000-1500.  For some reason the ancestors of the Mandans and Hidatsas quit making thunderbird effigies by about AD 1500.  After 1500 the Mandans/Hidatsas made different types of bird effigies.  Examples are bird head carvings with handles, like the ones larson1951 finds. 
There is a thunderbird from ND in Hothem's book, Rare and Unusual Indian Artifacts.  The effigy is most likely from a prehistoric Mandan site and probably dates from AD 1200-1400.
There are a few excellent articles on thunderbirds from the Northern Plains.  One book that most folks should be able to find/purchase is, Plains Village Archaeology: Bison Hunting Farmers in the Central and Northern Plains, 2007.  Chapter nine, Thunderbird Effigies from Plains Village Sites in the Northern Great Plains, has tons of info for those interested in learning about authentic thunderbirds.
I have never heard of any reported flint thunderbirds in archaeological sites.  I'm sure that there are authentic ones, though, but they're not in the archy literature that I am aware of...
Here are a couple pics of shell thunderbird effigies from prehistoric Mandan sites in North Dakota.
Steve71

[kansas]

you can reduce the size of the pic. 1800x1600 in paint

[greywolf22]

why?
  ..........

[wmwallace]

Thanks Jack, never heard of such a thing. Thunderbirds exist but not out of flint. That is an outstanding piece as well.