Painted stone

[tomf]

Based on your documentation, are we to believe that any stone that bares a mark that might be interpreted as one of these simple motifs is the work of the hand of man? Even if found in Rhode Island?

That's a controversial opinion.

[josalba]

There are stones with marks where there may be more controversy, that is true.

However, there are marks on certain pebbles (like some of the ones I have shown) that cannot have been formed by plows or naturally.

It is an iron oxide pigment where human manipulation exists. Otherwise, it is impossible to explain certain lines, shapes and figures on the stones.

By the way, I do not know the history of Rhode Island, is there any evidence that there have been people in the Paleolithic or Neolithic there?

[CMD]

In my opinion, that stone you have is painted by man. Look at the table I just uploaded and you will see that there is a cross design from the Neolithic era.

Well, we’re all entitled to an opinion. This type of natural staining I’m showing are often seen on quartzite cobbles, in my experience. Not in all cases, but my examples are not the only cobbles upon which such marks occur. The cobbles made from quartzite make for good hammerstones, so it was often selected. Anyway, no, it’s not paint. Consider: the site where I collected these is several thousand years old. In a temperate climate, lots of rain and snow for thousands of years since these hammerstones were used, and this paint lasted 4000-5000 years in this climate? This is not the desert Southwest. It’s not possible.

In any event, I do find your logic is flawed in comparing the crossed marks on my hammerstones to Neolithic art. That’s a leap that I just don’t have the patience to debate. It’s unlikely we will be able to help you. The marks on the hammerstones I presented are natural. If you want to believe the marks on the rocks you present are paint, by all means.

I believe you think you know more than you do. That certainly is not a crime, and it is a common thing these days. But, in this instance, it reflects a resistance to basic facts that makes any further discussion absolutely pointless. Life is too short as is. I can’t help you.

[josalba]

I'm just telling you that in Spain, this type of painting on the stones, experts are cataloging it as made by humans several thousand years ago (there are many documents and works on the Internet that determine this). Also, I have seen painted rocks in museums (in my country) similar to these. Perhaps, the experts in Spain may be wrong. I only bring up your judgment and opinion.

And of course, not all stones with these marks are man-made nor all caused by tractors or natural marks (not everything is black or white).

Nor do I pretend to be smarter than anyone, if you knew me you would rather think otherwise. I'm just a curious person who likes history. I respect your opinion, but mine is different.


Anyway, thanks for the healthy debate we have had.


By the way, I recommend you visit my country, you will not regret it. A marvel!

[CMD]

I suggest you try to contact the experts you mention, show them your stones, even if only with excellent photos, and see if they agree with your opinion of your rocks. I would think that is the best option. It will not be impossible to get the names of researchers involved, and dig up contact information for them. I think that would be a much more fruitful path to get answers.

Here, on a forum focused on Native American artifacts, and people who collect them, the knowledge is likely to be limited. Although our member painshill, who lives in Europe, is very knowledgeable, and his observations are very likely to be highly accurate. I believe he has provided you with accurate observations and information. I have long ago learned that you can be confident that is the case.

I’m sorry, I was not trying to insult you, but you told me the rocks I presented, specifically the one with a cross, were painted, and that was the reason I thought you knew more than you actually did. After all, I am far more familiar with the rocks and artifacts I have collected. I agree, the stains on my rocks were not caused by plow scars.

I’m sure Spain is a wonderful place to visit. I did study Spanish for 4 years in high school, and 2 years in college, but I was not exactly the best student, lol...