Fake bannerstones

[Hoss]

Thanks for the valuable information Paul. We have to stick together and stay informed when it comes to this type of thing.

[pkfrey]

Just a quick update and correction. I posted that I saw lots 104 -and- 105 being made. It's lots 105 -and- 244 that I watched the guy make. My other friend called today. I didn't see lot 104 being made, BUT HE DID !!! So, 104, 105, and 244 ARE ALL FAKES!! And 104 comes with multiple COAs!! A short and true story about that one, a dealer from N.C. owned it for a while. He sold it to a collector from Williamsport,Pa., and when it was learned that it was fake, the dealer did refund the guys money, and now it's in Putty's auction!!! If I can be of assistance to anyone, please don't hesitate to contact me. There are approx. 35 more banners out there somewhere in collections that this guy made. If anyone has a winged, soapstone bannerstone marked Salem Co.,Balto, Pa.,or Gloucester Co., N.J., send me a photo. I would recognize those that this faker made. They're all basically perfect, very thin wings, colorful soapstone, and all have an unusual polished surface. Theres also some birdstones floating around, that he also made.

[Hippy]

Do you have any idea what year those banners were made?  How long has this scam been going on?  When did they sell to the guy in NJ for the large sum?
Thanks,
Hippy

[pkfrey]

The ones I saw him make was between 4 - 6 years ago. His neighbor, who is a collector friend of mine, watched him make fake artifacts on and off for over 15 years! They sold to the guy in N.J., Pete Crane, about 3 years ago. Sadly, Pete passed away before he could continue his efforts in trying to get his $10,000 back. He also uses a wild colored, white and orange soapstone from China to make banners and birdstones. Several of these were sold at the local flea market last year for BIG BUCKS!! I was at the market that day. The conversation went like this; I said to the guy; Steve, that banner you just bought is fake. If you take it back right now, the guy might refund your money. But if you leave with it, you WILL find out it's fake, and then it will be to late. Steve said, I think it's good. The guy had a very convincing story about where it was found, and it looks good to me. So I just walked away. He paid $3000.00 for that white/orange bannerstone!! That's right-$3 THOUSAND DOLLARS!! About 3 months later, at an auction, Steve approached me, and said he wished he would have listened. He showed the banner around, and everyone told him it was fake. He went back to the faker, but couldn't get his money back. The best Steve could do is lodge a complaint with the flea markets owner, and the faker was banned from selling there again. People seem to love it when you tell them what they want to hear. They just don't want to hear the truth.

[Hippy]

Thank you for all the info.  Stories like this abound in the collecting field, but it's not often that we get to hear proof from a guy that was watching them being made.
I appreciate your efforts and keep up the good fight.
Hippy

[kreative]

Posted by [Mainejman]:

wow what a scam.Someday he will sell to the wrong person.He will be picking artifacts out his butt.Thats the problem with todays society nobody is held accountable.The fact that he is still out there doing the same crap shows that the legal system didnt work.This is where other measures need to be taken.We are talking about large sums of money.More than one should have to right off as a learning experience.If this gentleman ever did something like this to me his new nickname would be stubby.

[pkfrey]

It's been over a week now, I'm sure Putty got my email. I sent him a notice summarizing the situation, and letting him know the banners are fake, and were actually pulled from one of Bennetts auctions. But they're still in Puttys auction, with multiple bids! This is a matter of ethics and being honest. And this is why these problems exist. DO THE RIGHT THING PUTTY, PULL THOSE BANNERS AND MOVE ON !!!!

[Jeffery Howle]

I guess you have no pics so we could look for as a known fake

[pkfrey]

No I don't. I was actually impressed at how skillfull this guy was at making these. But then I had no idea at the time that his intention was to sell them as authentic. When I did find out, believe me, when I was done with him, I think he was crying!