my oldest stuff....so far

[OnewiththewilD]

ive been doin some research on some of my points that i know are very old, ive seen other examples of these kinds of points online and in person, theres even a few threads on here about them. ive shown these before but figured i'd stick em" all together on here.the photos come from the mass bulletin of archeology and the illustrations where done by william fowler.late paleo to early archaic,all from narragansett bay r.i.

you can just barely still see the flute,its wicked water polished!

[OnewiththewilD]

sure seems like it to me!

[OnewiththewilD]

...and into the early archaic

[rockdigger]

John ill just have to take your word for it. Im calling you John now. Ok. Thanks.

[OnewiththewilD]

if ya dont i'll give ya a war you wont believe. :evil:

[rockdigger]

:rolf:
  ..........

[OnewiththewilD]

http://arrowheads.com/forums/indian-...eos#67307heres the older post with similar points

[CoachG]

Nice points.  That water sure does a number on em.

[Ron Kelley]

Hey Jay Nice artifacts and some good work with the pictures.

[JR]

Nice finds. They match well to the examples. Cool

[G10+]

wow r those beach finds ?? those waves r killer .... nice finds !!

[OnewiththewilD]

yep, all beach finds,all differant spots,but all narragansett bay.the water and sand definatly beats the hell outta almost everything, the bay was once a flood plain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narragansett_Bay and most of our early sites are now under water.as the water levels rose the people just kept moving up the banks,everyone likes to live right on the water,just like today!so stuff from all time periods washes up along it.

[OnewiththewilD]

heres another one

[CMD]

Cool thread, Jay. The point you are comparing your's to in the first photo is a quartzite point Fowler found himself and he restored the tip himself. It was found on clay, on the lowest level of the Twin Rivers site in northeastern RI, along with other things at that depth, including a Channeled Gouge, diagnostic of Early Archaic, or at least they are the earliest form of the gouge. My gut feeling is these will be in the Late Paleo/Early Archaic here. You know Helen's example was deemed fluted by some of the most knowledgable, but the flute is weak, it's quartzite, which usually means settling into a regional adaptation, so entering the earliest Archaic at that point. Jeff Boudreau felt it was earlier then our Hardaway-Dalton analogues.  Seen a few of them by now, they are uncertain as to age, but Late Paleo/Early Archaic seems best right now. They may all be untyped Late Paleo small Lanceolate points.
See this earlier thread, Jay, for what might be similar examples:
  http://arrowheads.com/forums/indian-...ossible-paleos
I think the second point down reminds me of an Orient Fishtail variant, Transitional Archaic, and the last two points are Middle Archaic Stark points. Jeff Boudreau's typology puts them in the 6,000-7,000 year range.
I see you are using Fowler's earliest edition. Since then, the Early Archaic has been separated into Early and Middle Archaic. Any Neville points you may have found are also Middle Archaic and in the 7000-8000 year range. Generally, the earliest you can hope to have a decent chance of finding in this neck of the woods are points called Hardaway-Dalton, but only loosely based on the point of that name from the Middle Atlantic. But they can be found, and are likely, they've never been found in a dated context, 9000+ in range. After that, you can find Early a archaic bifurcates in the 8000-9000 year range. Those would be the 2 types one has a reasonable chance of finding. Also Kirks on a rare basis as well.

[OnewiththewilD]

thats what i first thought when i found it,but after really looking at it i just had this gut feeling its not an orient.plus its similarity to the ones in fowlers sketchs,such as size,material(quartzite)and the small "flutes", im thinking its like the one on the page,BUT,i could be wrong,after all im no expert!heres a comparison to my orients

and i managed to take better pics of the small "flutes"