Spearheads for hunting versus for war

[WanderingFox]

Hello! I'm doing research for a book, and I was wondering if anyone knew if there were differences in the design for hunting spearheads versus war spearheads. Thank you!!

[chase]

Ok I will take a stab at this. First lets get your terminology correct. Like the word arrowhead is used and Spearpoint, Those are a generic terms. The next thing would be to narrow down a time frame your wanting to write about. You could pick a time period like Paleo, Archaic, woodland, Prehistoric or Historic. For the most part I do not think they made special points for either Hunting or war, but used what point type they were using at that time, per the region they were in. Looks like you will need to figure out what your wanting to write about or be more specific.
Welcome to the Forum. :welcome:

[Hoss]

I do not think there was specific types for war. But I have heard some oldtimers atlk about how a war arrow was mounted on a shaft. The blade would be on a horizontal plane so as to pass through the ribs of a man standing up right. Then for hunting the point would be on a vertical plane so as to pass through the ribs of a critter on all fours. This is just words passed down from old timers who normally called triangles war points and stemmed points hunting points. All of that terminology is rarely refereed to anymore.

[Hoss]

I think to research what you want to know a place to start would be to read about the Indian Wars. Us History from 1600 to 1900 and books of that nature. There may be references in those books for what you seek. some others here may have some clues. I read a book years ago called Captured By The Indians: 15 Firsthand Accounts, 1750-1870  The book was hard to put down. I do not remember if there were specifics about arrow points mounted to shafts but a cool book. indeed.

[Questions]

I've always was told that the apache. Used war points made so when the arrow was pulled out would leave the point in to keep cutting you up from the inside.

[WanderingFox]

Thanks so much!! I just had no idea where to start looking for information that specific. I appreciate it! And I'll not make the "spearhead" mistake again.

[chase]

Questions wrote:

I've always was told that the apache. Used war points made so when the arrow was pulled out would leave the point in to keep cutting you up from the inside.

Hmmmm I have never heard that? Most of what I know, and that is not much. Apache's for the most part were banded together during historic times, from the introduction of horses. Most of what they would have had during that time frame would have been Metal points both trade and Indian made. and guns. To assure that a point would stay on in order to penetrate, it would have had to be fasten to where it would not be easily displaced from the shaft.
Now from a Atlatl the point would have been fasten into a foreshaft and could be easily displaced from the main shaft. Here is a link to give you a good idea how this would work.

http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/darts/foreshafts.htm

[Questions]

Im still In school and this is what they are teaching the apache were killing don't no about the horse.

[Chippintuff]

I don't know about other stone tools, but Ishi was reported to have said his people (Yana? From Northern California) had different arrow points for different prey, including men in war. You can find a lot of info on him on the internet, including digital books.
WA

[WanderingFox]

Yeah, I figured that maybe the hunting point might have a barb to stay in the animal while a war spearpoint might not be barbed for the opposite reason. It's a fictional book, but I'd like to base it on fact!

[painshill]

There is only limited evidence of particular arrow points being used for warfare rather than hunting, but the differentiation – where it is reported to exist – was more usually about size and weight ratios in relation to shaft length and weight. That in turn relates to bow styles and there certainly was a difference between the types of bow used for hunting and the types used for warfare (and hunting), as well as a difference between bows used when on foot versus later "horse-bows". Other factors also influence the size and weight of points, such as the types of wood available for bow-making and arrow shafts. Light-weight arrows made from reed stems had smaller points, whatever their intended use. The general concept of “war points” as a particular style is however false.

You might in some circumstances be able to say whether a particular point was likely to have been produced for hunting rather than warfare if you knew the relationship it had to the type of shaft it was attached to and the bow style it was used with… but that’s probably as far as you could go. In some cases, the size and type of point on arrows used with the hunting bow may have been matched to the type of prey that was being hunted. Other than that, points were points and had a multi-purpose functionality.

In any case, they would use what was immediately available unless perhaps preparing for a major conflict. It is recorded for example that Sitting Bull had made a gift of his war bow (to the US Army’s Colonel Miles, if I recall correctly) after entering Canada in 1876 and committing to make no raids across the border into US territory. When things kicked off again, he used his hunting bow instead.

There is also evidence for preparation of arrows/arrowheads in relation to planned conflict, whereby poisons were sometimes used on points destined to be used in battle.
As for Ishi, this is what Saxton Pope had to say in “Yahi Archery”:

The width of the bow at the middle of each limb was three or four fingers, according to whether a light hunting bow or a powerful war bow was wanted. Apparently some arrows, those of great length, measuring a yard, and having large heads, were purely for ornamental purposes, or intended to be given as presents, or possibly to be used in time of war….
His hunting shafts were of two kinds - obsidian pointed, and blunt. In general it may be said that his typical hunting arrow was a hazel stick, with a foreshaft, the entire length being 29 inches. The diameter at the middle was 1/32 inch; and the total weight was 330 grains. The feathering of the arrow consisted of three plumes from a buzzard’s wing, 4 ¾ inches long, 3/8 inch wide….

For making arrowheads, bone and obsidian and flint were used by the Yahi. Flint Ishi designated as pana k’aina and seemed to like it because of its varied colors. But hahka or obsidian was in commoner use, and among the Yahi it served even as money….

To make a head of this type [a typical lithic point] required about half an hour. He made them in all sizes and shapes. Large spike-like heads were for gift arrows and war. Medium size heads, perhaps 1 ½ inches long, ¾ inch wide, and ¼ inch thick, were for ordinary deer shooting, while small, flat oval heads were for shooting bear….

[WanderingFox]

I was focusing on the spears for this character...I was hoping there would be a big difference between war/hunting points. Oh, well. Thank you so much for your help! If anyone has further reading to recommend, that would also be fantastic!

[painshill]

WanderingFox wrote:

I was focusing on the spears for this character...I was hoping there would be a big difference between war/hunting points. Oh, well. Thank you so much for your help! If anyone has further reading to recommend, that would also be fantastic!

You have to bear in mind that "the spear" is also not just a single piece of technology. It comes in different forms with different suitabilities. Those different forms may have different styles of tip and there are some general things that can be said about usage. But remember also that usage was frequently a life-style choice or necessity, depending on the locality, culture and time period. Again, there is no real support for a specific form of tip that could be said to be a "war point".

Spears split down into 3 main groups (discounting harpoons, which were exclusively for hunting):

Stabbing & Throwing Spears

Lithic tips would generally be short and broad. Some had no tip at all – just a sharpened wooden pole , the end of which would normally have been hardened by holding it in a fire. The length and girth of the shaft is what would normally distinguish stabbing from throwing, rather than the tip. Both were used for hunting and fighting. Stabbing spears for hunting are more likely to be earlier items. Large broad lithic tips assumed by many to be spearheads are often actually knife forms. They may show signs of being hafted but it’s the use-wear pattern on the edges that enables them to be assigned.

Lances

These are essentially similar to spears, but designed specifically for use on horseback. Both the shaft and the tip will be longer and usually thinner than a stabbing spear. Lances were almost invariably for combat not hunting and a slender point (without barbs) is a lot easier to pull out of the enemy as you sweep by, without becoming unseated from your horse or losing your weapon. You also need a longer reach from the back of a horse, while maintaining a sensible balance between the strength and weight of the lance.

Atlatl Spears

More properly called “darts”, these were launched from a “thrower” (a hollowed out shaft with a notch or cup in which the base end of the dart sits). The thrower acts as a lever-like extension of your arm when you make the throw, dramatically increasing the velocity and accuracy of the spear over a longer range. Again, these were used for both hunting and fighting with no particular distinction over the form of the tip. The atlatl was the fore-runner of the bow and it’s often not possible to distinguish the lithic tips used from those that were true arrowheads. The bow didn’t arrive in North America until about 1500 BC (from paleo-Arctic cultures, where it was more frequently used for hunting than fighting), and wasn’t adopted in most parts of the States until 200-700AD. Smallish points which are earlier than the adoption dates for the bow in any given region are from atlatl darts. If larger, they’re from other spear types or are knife forms.

[rmartin]

I have very little to add other than the fact there is little evidence of warfare among groups of Native American prior to the agricultural cultures. There is evidence from the Southwest in the Pueblo periods among Anasazi and some in Illinois during the Mississippian culture. One example of really ancient conflict would be possibly Kennewick Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man

http://westerndigs.org/skeletons-in-utah-cave-are-victims-of-prehistoric-war-study-says/

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/davidson/Arch%20of%20Death/Week%2008/1991%20Milner%20et%20al.,%20Prehistoric%20Warfare%20.pdf

[SDhunter]

Interesting topic.  Thanks for bringing it up Fox,  and good luck on your book.   Gary