Amazing Portable Rock Art found in PA

[painshill]

Amazing Portable Rock Art found in PA
Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]:

Moderator Note: this thread was first posted in 2015 but failed to transfer across to the new forum when the software was updated, and so has been re-created manually.

So I found a second Native american Pictograph or portable rock art, on a pestle grinder made of quartz there are four pictures on the Artifact the first are all together the first symbol is of a whirling log Native American Swastika,right of it is a spear and shaft and right of it is a deer with horns.... It gets better opposite side is Amazing !!!!This is another Outstanding one of a kind find!!!



Opposite side is a male human depiction......Awesome,Awesome, AWSOME!!!







Posted by [Hoss ]:
Was this found in a corn field?


Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]:
Yes,hoss I found it in same location I found my turtle rock art...I found a few other petroglyphs there also but are hard to make out I've been trying to chalk those to see what they are appear to be alott of triangles,water symbols and spear and pipes on them...


Posted by [CMD ]:
I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I don't see anything that doesn't look natural to me. It looks like oxidation staining on quartz.
I see the swastika, I get the idea of it and the human stick figure, but why are these man made? It looks natural.



Posted by [Kyflintguy]:
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but im not seeing all of those supposed depictions or iconography.
I don't see any signs of pecking, all I see is a rock, with a quartz inclusion and some natural staining or discoloration and maybe a few fresh scratches.
You have to (need to) familiarize yourself with actual Native American artifacts, and what pecking, flaking and grinding actually look like, there is good information and pictures here in the information center were you can do that.
Does look like it may be suitable for a hammerstone but it would need to show signs of use wear.
Keep up the search


Posted by [CMD ]:
Yeah, it's iron oxide staining on quartz. Your imagination is running ahead of you on this one.

[painshill]

Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]:
Mortar rock art petroglyph one of many I've been trying to figure out







Posted by [Kyflintguy]:
Looks like plow or disc marks to me.


Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]:
Its ok if you dont see it, I have found thousands of Native American Artifacts in the last 7 years in this one single location check out the history of Standing Stone, Pa Towanda PA,Tunkhannock,Pa Meshoppin Pa Wyoming, Pa long For those who think pictographs are made of paint and oxide marks are just oxide a quick 101 for yas......Black pigments were obtained from charcoal, roasted graphite (a form of carbon), and manganese ores like hausmanite, manganite, braunite, and polianite. Black ochre is a combination of manganese dioxide and graphite. The artists at Lascaux used black and grey magnetite, which are forms of iron.
A dark Brown pigment can be obtained from stilpnosiderite, turgite, or goethite, which are iron silicates.
Research has discovered that pictographs are so durable because the paint actually stains the rock surface, with capillary action drawing the pigment into microscope pores in the rock surface. When the liquid carrier for the pigment evaporates the pigment is left behind and, over time, actually becomes part of the rock itself.
Source www.ancestral.com/materials.html


Posted by [OnewiththewilD]:
( ....oh no, not another one.) the fact you think you've found multiple pictograph stones should tell you that you probably havent. portable rock art is actually pretty damn rare and when it is an actual artifact theres usually little dispute. i see a quartz cobble and a plow scarred rock, sorry.



Posted by [JoshinMO]:
GOOD LORD. hmy: :laugh:


Posted by [CMD]:
PaArtifactHunter wrote:
Its ok if you dont see it, I have found thousands of Native American Artifacts in the last 7 years in this one single location check out the history of Standing Stone, Pa Towanda PA,Tunkhannock,Pa Meshoppin Pa Wyoming, Pa long For those who think pictographs are made of paint and oxide marks are just oxide a quick 101 for yas......Black pigments were obtained from charcoal, roasted graphite (a form of carbon), and manganese ores like hausmanite, manganite, braunite, and polianite. Black ochre is a combination of manganese dioxide and graphite. The artists at Lascaux used black and grey magnetite, which are forms of iron.
A dark Brown pigment can be obtained from stilpnosiderite, turgite, or goethite, which are iron silicates.
Research has discovered that pictographs are so durable because the paint actually stains the rock surface, with capillary action drawing the pigment into microscope pores in the rock surface. When the liquid carrier for the pigment evaporates the pigment is left behind and, over time, actually becomes part of the rock itself.
Source www.ancestral.com/materials.html

No, you are very mistaken. The second rock does not show pictographs, either. I've been involved with petroglyph research in the Northeast since the late 1970's. Have recorded and published sites. I've worked with Ed Lenik, author of more books on pictographs and petroglyphs of the Northeast then anyone else in this region. He can tell you that you are mistaken. I can assure you of that. You don't have to accept that fact, but please stop posting these rocks, if these are your idea of pictographs. Do you want to remain mistaken about this for the remainder of your life? Your choice I guess, but this right here is ridiculous. We don't buy it because you have created a completely false narrative for yourself having no bearing on reality.

Your source above are artists who have not revised their page since 2003. They are not experts in rock art of the Northeast. You could(but please do not!) show us these rocks until you're blue in the face. Until you're finally ready to learn the truth about exactly what the various natural formed designs are, you will be wasting your time. And most certainly wasting ours. I just don't have much patience anymore for folks who know more then all of us combined, folks who pay absolutely no attention to any facts described to them, and basically demonstrate their respect for the knowledge we do have is zilch. Unless I am mistaken , you did show the turtle rock to Ed Lenik a few years ago, and you decided he did not handle your treasure with enough respect. Most likely that's because it was a rock, and he did not see it through over imaginative eyes.

Do not post any more rocks. Because if you do so, it means you have not paid one iota of attention to what we are telling you. And that would not be polite, would it? It would be kinda disrespectful, wouldn't it? So, do not post another one of these ridiculous examples of rocks that do not display rock art. If you don't want to learn, fine. Don't. But don't insult our intellegence again.

BTW, here is Ed Lenik. My colleague in Northeast rock art studies for nearly 40 years. Reading his many books on the subject might actually educate you on a subject you are otherwise completely misinformed regarding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d8gfC3AtvfA

Posted by [Gater]:
Source www.ancestral.com/materials.html
Leaving the topic aside, a very interesting site, thanks.



Posted by [gregszybala]:
Wow!
And take this in stride but I think we have 2015's winner!

[painshill]

Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]:
I met Ed a few years ago at the SARC he was checking out the pictographs and petrolyphs in the nicholson pa area very near where I find my artifacts...don't hate! it is what it is! check out the pictographs in the SARC...Ed held my turtle pictograph lol


Posted by [sneakygroundbuzzard]:
that is a really nice collection of natural rocks you have there
just because Ed held it doesnt mean it is what YOU think it is,what did he say about it?
i have to agree with the others,you need to stop wasting every ones time by posting natural rocks that show no intentional human manipulation


Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]:
I took the turtle on nov, 1 2014 to the museum of Indian culture where Lee Hallman and his colleagues authenticated it as a Native American Pictograph.anyone know Lee? He is a the curator of the museum and said its real from 1700s more than likely and it is absolutely priceless...Ed was more impressed with the guy heckling him in the SARC about how he takes other peoples finds and declares them his! That was the impression I got of Ed he never found a Pictograph without someone pointing it out to him lol anyhow glad I can still stir things up in here!


Posted by [pkfrey]:
I've known Lee Hallman for over 20 years. How can I contact Ed Lenik to examine my catlinite tablet pictograph. Here P.A.H.
Attachment DSC04568-2.jpg not found
Attachment DSC04566-2.jpg not found
, is a true pictograph, or rock art petroglyph from Mass. I showed it recently, but I'll add a photo again for PAH to see what they should look like. One photo covered in white powder to enhance the details.
Paul RS Frey


Posted by [CMD]:
pkfrey wrote:
I've known Lee Hallman for over 20 years. How can I contact Ed Lenik to examine my catlinite tablet pictograph. Here P.A.H.
Attachment DSC04568-2.jpg not found
Attachment DSC04566-2.jpg not found
, is a true pictograph, or rock art petroglyph from Mass. I showed it recently, but I'll add a photo again for PAH to see what they should look like. One photo covered in white powder to enhance the details.

That's a beauty. His latest work just went to the printers, and will have a couple of my artifacts in it. A portable petroglyph and a sandstone effigy. Please check your PM's Paul. I am sending you Ed's contact info.


Posted by [Cachefind09]:
PaArtifactHunter, your rock art is nothing more than iron deposits from the field equipment striking them and the metal turning to iron oxide. The different colors are just the stages of oxidation with the dark streaks being more recent than the red streaks. The dark streaks will turn red over time. I have personally witnessed this with a large knife I found that had been struck with a plow leaving a shiny iron streak on the surface. Through the years the streak has changed to a dark streak and is now turning red in color.
As for the mortar rock, just a couple passes from the cultivator can leave all those marks which is what has happened in this case. I do see what appears to be a Brontosaurus etched in white above the mid line scrape. You will know without a doubt when you find a piece of rock art. I think you are just looking for shapes in clouds when looking for rock art.


Posted by [CMD]:
PaArtifactHunter wrote:
I met Ed a few years ago at the SARC he was checking out the pictographs and petrolyphs in the nicholson pa area very near where I find my artifacts...don't hate! it is what it is! check out the pictographs in the SARC...Ed held my turtle pictograph lol

I don't hate, and I don't like the fact that I was brusque. However, time and again we experience posters who dismiss what experienced folks offer, and instead just plunge ahead with a fantasy of the imagination. And that gives the impression that the poster is not in the least bit interested in an education on the matter. I don't hate you at all. When folks provide astute observation, and the first reply is another rock, it tells me we are talking to the wall. It gets very, very tiresome, and I showed my impatience with this as a result. If someone doesn't say it, I'm sure we would just continue to see a parade of similar rocks with natural markings.
What I get impatient with, even intolerant of, is the replies that clearly say everything is going in one ear and out the other. All that said, of course I do respect your right to entertain misinformed opinions regarding pictographs. I don't know why someone would prefer to hold onto error, but I respect your right to choose error over fact.


Posted by [sneakygroundbuzzard]:
>>CMD wrote:
>PaArtifactHunter wrote:
I met Ed a few years ago at the SARC he was checking out the pictographs and petrolyphs in the nicholson pa area very near where I find my artifacts...don't hate! it is what it is! check out the pictographs in the SARC...Ed held my turtle pictograph lol<
I don't hate, and I don't like the fact that I was brusque. However, time and again we experience posters who dismiss what experienced folks offer, and instead just plunge ahead with a fantasy of the imagination. And that gives the impression that the poster is not in the least bit interested in an education on the matter. I don't hate you at all. When folks provide astute observation, and the first reply is another rock, it tells me we are talking to the wall. It gets very, very tiresome, and I showed my impatience with this as a result. If someone doesn't say it, I'm sure we would just continue to see a parade of similar rocks with natural markings.
What I get impatient with, even intolerant of, is the replies that clearly say everything is going in one ear and out the other. All that said, of course I do respect your right to entertain misinformed opinions regarding pictographs. I don't know why someone would prefer to hold onto error, but I respect your right to choose error over fact.<<

CMD,very well said


Posted [CMD]:
PaArtifactHunter wrote:
I took the turtle on nov, 1 2014 to the museum of Indian culture where Lee Hallman and his colleagues authenticated it as a Native American Pictograph.anyone know Lee? He is a the curator of the museum and said its real from 1700s more than likely and it is absolutely priceless...Ed was more impressed with the guy heckling him in the SARC about how he takes other peoples finds and declares them his! That was the impression I got of Ed he never found a Pictograph without someone pointing it out to him lol anyhow glad I can still stir things up in here!

What you're saying about Ed is absurd. And I strongly suspect Hallman was just humoring you, since your turtle was not a pictograph at all that we could see. Most likely Hallman, et al, humored you so you would just leave happy. Probably detected that they better tell you it was what you thought it was or you would berate them for the remainder of their day. Of course you deleted all images of the painted turtle as a search just revealed. Hallman was humoring you, son.

Do you have any idea what Ed Lenik's credentials are? Any at all? This short synopsis of a recent book describes those credentials. The foremost authority on rock art in the Northeast Woodlands and past President of the Eastern States Archaeological Federation. You, on the other hand, sound like someone who reads a book on anatomy and decides he's qualified to be a brain surgeon.