river law handout

[Ron Kelley]

OnewiththewilD wrote:

hey laswell i dont see why anyone would object to you cleanin up the rivers, so what if you get some money for the junk , you deserve it for diggin it out! and your helping the enviroment. im pretty sure garbage isnt good for the waters.good job man

Ditto. Well put Jay.

[Jeffery Howle]

CliffJ wrote:

I didn't see anything in that statement that allowed peeing or looking for arrowheads on someone else's river bank. Nothing justifies violence but some people get rude and obnoxious when they are using someone else's land. Most people would get back into their boat and go pee somewhere else if confronted by the landowner. JMO, as a waterfront landowner.

  well Cliff what I read in the post was you can't stop anyone from walking the river bank because waterways are public. now if you are on a private lake or something like this it would be different. Just because you own the land on both sides of a river you don't own the river.

[OnewiththewilD]

heres one then, does the gravel and rocks ( and points)which are along the water, belong to the landowner or the "waters". the gravel is usally always changing after all. i guess it depends on the state,circumstance, laws, and personnal judgement. if the waters right on someones doorstep or small yard you should probably find another spot or ask permission out of courtesy, on the other hand , if your the property owner, if you see someone pokin around on the edge of your property you'd be kinda suspicious too and wanna know whats goin on, but if the guy/gal smiles and waves an yells" im looking for arrowheads!" you should have no reason to be alarmed, if anything you(the owner) might end up with a new friend, unless your a point hunter too  :evil: . be friendly with everyone,why not? talk to the locals and let them know you so they have nothing to worry about. im a young muscular   dude who's covered in tattoos , i probably look a little intimadating to most people, and i hunt beaches in small private neiborhoods and public parks, me walking around starin at the ground and walking in zigzags for hours must make people think im nuts (even though i am!)but once ive had a chance to talk to someone they have nothing to worry or wonder about, in fact all the locals i come across love seeing me! i guess if people could just confront others with smiles and questions instead of shouts and warnings we'd have nothing to worry about in the first place.

[Jeffery Howle]

I agree ONE ..Even tho I don't hunt areas that I'm the only one there...I see footprints from others all the time..It doesn't bother me because no one can find them all. When I do run across someone there at the same time I'm eager to talk with them and share the passion since WE are all in it together. Its like taking a friend hunting with you at Your place and they out find you. I'm not jealous I'm proud that another great artifact was found.

[will dawes]

it clearly states that you may walk the stream and river beds and banks not only for navigation but for recreation as long as it is a nondestructive activity its really simple when states earned statehood the rivers wer put into public trust and hence are owned by the public this rite is the same in every state if a state has a law that sais you cant collect artifacts from rivers than don't do it obviously but most states finding and taking of an artifact on the surface is no different than taking a pebble from said place thanks for your comment

[Pinetree1]

You cannot step foot on any river bank that is joined by private property! You must be in a boat. If the river floods up to their front porch you can duck hunt in their front yard if you want. If the river goes dry the landowner owns to the middle of the river and the opposite landowner meets him in the middle. That is on all federal and Kentucky waterways.

[Butch Wilson]

Seems to me if you pick up and remove anything, rock, stick, arrowhead from private property without permission! You are stealing ! Doesn't matter if you got there by boat, airplane or walked in ! Landowners do have rights ! This is no different than pot hunting on private land and digging everything in sight !

[CliffJ]

wildo420 wrote:

it clearly states that you may walk the stream and river beds and banks not only for navigation but for recreation as long as it is a nondestructive activity its really simple when states earned statehood the rivers wer put into public trust and hence are owned by the public this rite is the same in every state if a state has a law that sais you cant collect artifacts from rivers than don't do it obviously but most states finding and taking of an artifact on the surface is no different than taking a pebble from said place thanks for your comment

OK, you keep coming back to the term "nondestructive activity". Removing an arrowhead, or a pebble, is destructive and cannot be reversed once they are removed. Taking them is stealing on private property. Federal laws may permit walking along the bank or portaging along a river, but there is no allowance for removing anything as you walk which is a destructive activity. Do you think you can also take a few beers out of their cooler on a dock on the river as well? I don't think so, and the handout says nothing about taking anything while you are exercising your federal right to travel the river.

[JoshinMO]

At least we are figuring something out.   What about property owners along creeks, do the points and rocks belong to them and if so and we are given permission to hunt them does that make it ok or do they belong to everyone or no one? Lol

[JoshinMO]

Also, its not like we are breaking points.

[will dawes]

so cliff your telling me you never walked a stream and took an artifact then sounds like you just want to argue here the point is the landowner does not own that property the state does so why are you still calling it private property the states wer given these tracts of land along rivers for the public upon statehood although I like your argument it seems to me it is entirely based on a byass opinion soly due to the fact that you own river front property  wich actually ends at the vegetation line on the bank beyond that veg line is public domain and it is in fact perfectly exceptible in most states and most cases to collect rocks it is considered a nondestructive activity I had a conversation with one of the university of maine archeologists a couple years ago who told me it is perfectly acceptable to collect along streams in most cases they only want to here about what you find and where you found it to give them a heads up about the area because it may be of importance to there study program actually one  most of the important sites here in maine was originally found by ametuers and turned over to the university (see sebasticook lake fish weir) I think you may not fully understand that federal law is supreme and that the town deed that some landowners have that reads to the middle of the river was never correct because no one person ever owned it so how could a person have purchased it in any event picking up a pepple or artifact that has eroded from the upper bank that now lies on public property is perfectly legal uless it is a state park wildlife refuge or archeological site listed on the national register for historic places or in fact taken from above the normal high water line of the stream or river in wich case it would be private property digging in is stream bed is always illegal unless digger has state or federal permit but surface picking is legal in most states

[will dawes]

josh the points belong to the public they are rocks that lie in the river anyone can have a few lol its a technical subject but no warden in his rite mind is gonna give you greif about collecting rocks or artifaacts unless your state forbids the activity

[Butch Wilson]

Nothing in the article or the law  gives one a right to remove anything, granted it may be held in trust for navigation that  still does not give one permission for stealing from the bank of the landowner or from a public trust !  Without permission if you remove it you are stealing it !
Justifying as legal activity because you participate does not change the fact !

[JoshinMO]

Butch, IF (big if) it is private property though/have permission then safe? Just having fun with this subject  :laugh:  as the laws,privelages etc seem vague or don't coincide as in I have read much about this and when 2 explinations are put side by side with both being true/fact something doesn't add up. One source says one thing and another says something else. I actually contacted department of natural resources (Recently told they own waterways) after the tragedy out here explaining to them people don't understand the laws or privelages and that's why stuff like that happens. They didn't have much of an explination on "all this" either. I think I am in the clear with most of my creek finds as I know the property owner there but that's ONLY IF TRULY HIS PROPERTY lol. People/Buisness's do mine/dredge creek gravel out here for road/construction purposes (destruction?) States allowed to do so as read that somewhere also. Nothing I ever found in creek was likely ever where the point laid 20 or even 5 years ago so not archaeologically valuable as most would say and if left just another pebble for the Atv tires to spit out. If state land, whatever. Keep in mind some States laws MIGHT vary though not sure.

[OnewiththewilD]

im not trying to stir the pot or anything but as landowners, are you really that worried about someone pickin up a rock as they pass by walkin the river? stealing?  come on, its not like anyones takin a beer outta your cooler, its a rock.