But Is It Art?

[MagpieInTheSky]

Hello!
I am new to this forum but have been collecting flint for some years. I'm posting from the east of england, and am very keen to pick the brains of forum members.I have a number of anomalous artefacts...I'll start with this curious piece, found by me. It appears (to me) that the cortex has been pecked, with close regard to surface detail. I have found a few geofacts in my time, but I dont believe this is one. I have some background, but would like an opinion of the stone alone, authentic? what era etc..if you get me. Of course I want it to be a genuine piece of portable rock art..the problem is that such a thing is unknown (as far as I can ascertain) in this part of the world. Opinions please....

[MagpieInTheSky]

Being a new member and having just posted photos in this section I then read the message asking new members not to post photos in this section.Forgive me...I am but a fledgling learning to fly....

[SurfaceHunter]

Unusual rock but looks natural to me. I don’t see the pecking I see natural inclusions. Welcome to the forum and post some real artifacts in the other sections.

[MagpieInTheSky]

Thanks for the reply. There are a few things I will add...I sent some pictures to a very accomplished and well known flint knapper..he stated that he had not seen the like, but it appeared to him 'pecked, to release form on the surface'. Also, I look very closely for signs of grip/use/wear/hafting/binding rolling/abrasion etc. This stone presents to me as feeling handled, as distinct from naturally abraded. Everyone I have shown it to agrees that it is unusual. Without anything similar to compare it with then it is of course pure conjecture...

[rock ON.]

I am definitely no expert on artifacts, but I am a rock hound and I know that through geological processes mother nature is one hell of an artist and I'm sorry to say that in my opinion it looks like she may have done the work on that piece.
Oh and by the way welcome to the forum from Ontario Canada!

[MagpieInTheSky]

No need to be sorry-I welcome your opinion! From what I have read regarding prehistoric cave and rock art, inherent contours and forms were modified and enhanced. There may be some clue to the ancientideology ideology of stone in this...I find it illuminating to try and grasp the mindset of the ancients. My psycholgist has warned me about this...

[Lindenmeier-Man]

My daughter in law has many degrees in behavioral science, she told me that even Sigmund Freud could not make a diagnosis to my particular mental state. I told her, “ Go tell university that you want your money back !”

[gregszybala]

This is going to be fun and welcome!

[SurfaceHunter]

Makes me wonder if a face rock might be coming

[redrocks]

You have the mindset that all of us have.... we're attracted to unusual rocks....that fit the bill of many traits that we associate tools and weapons made by our Native Americans..
we all bring rocks home that we think wow this coulda....shoulda ...it fits the hand nice.....so you have similar worked stone...the only thing you don't have is ..Native Americans. Portable rock art seems like it is similar to what we do..but different. ....welcome to the forum from Connecticut USA

[MagpieInTheSky]

Thanks for the welcomes. I look forward to learning about Native American artefacts from you all, of which I know nothing.

[CMD]

There is actually a term that describes what we see, where your rock is concerned, but I'm afraid I only minored in geology, and that was 50 years ago, lol, so my memory is failing me here. But, yes, as others have indicated, it is natural, and the lines are not man made. Welcome to our forum from New England. Glad you could join us, and looking forward to other finds you may wish to share with us.

[MagpieInTheSky]

In the interest of fairness, which of course you as moderator seek to uphold, I would say this. One cannot make the statement' "it is natural" without an objective asessment. It is a matter of opinion, not a statement of fact. I do not doubt for one instance your knowledge and experience. Of course you may be correct in your belief that it is entirely natural, as I may be mistaken in mine. I in no way seek to challenge your view, but in this instance, to ask you to be mindful of how it is expressed. If my opinion, albeit possibly erroneous or misguided, is dismissed by another opinion, presented as a statement of fact, that is surely not fair. Language is a loaded weapon. My contention remains that the possibility exists this stone may have been modified/augmented. If I am being pedantic or over zealous, I apologise , I felt it was important to make a distinction.

[MagpieInTheSky]

I am really not trying to put the cat amongst the pigeons, having just joined the forum, merely to stand my ground as far as opinion based conjecture goes.

[gregszybala]

Well said. That being the case the ball is in your court. Is there anyway you can substantiate your claim? Is there proof that these are what you say? Any research that reinforces your argument. If you can prove us wrong I'm willing to change my mind.

[CMD]

In the interest of fairness, which of course you as moderator seek to uphold, I would say this. One cannot make the statement' "it is natural" without an objective asessment. It is a matter of opinion, not a statement of fact. I do not doubt for one instance your knowledge and experience. Of course you may be correct in your belief that it is entirely natural, as I may be mistaken in mine. I in no way seek to challenge your view, but in this instance, to ask you to be mindful of how it is expressed. If my opinion, albeit possibly erroneous or misguided, is dismissed by another opinion, presented as a statement of fact, that is surely not fair. Language is a loaded weapon. My contention remains that the possibility exists this stone may have been modified/augmented. If I am being pedantic or over zealous, I apologise , I felt it was important to make a distinction.

Actually, what I was saying is that there is an actual term, from geology, that describes the nature of the markings on your rock. It's one of those "it's on the tip of my tongue" things, and I just can't jog my memory. I also have found similar specimens to yours, although I don't have any examples I can pull out of my collections to show you. Perhaps you can post your rock to one of the many geology forums on the web, and you'll likely have better luck there. Or someone like our member pkfrey may know if he sees your thread. It is natural. I am sorry I can't offer you the exact assessment you need, but if I do remember the term, I'll get back to you in this thread. I was not stating an opinion, I was stating a fact. But, it may be necessary for you to seek out a more detailed explanation of that fact on a geology forum, or perhaps the geology department of a university nearby to where you live. You certainly don't have to take my word for it, or anybody else's word for it.

[tomclark]

The lines do not look pecked. way too small and somewhat perfect little holes. There are similar possible solution holes in the main material as well as the lines. I postulate this is ancient mud with worm holes in it that became like geode tunnels with crystals and they eventually eroded out in solution WOI!! That is one NEAT thing!