The Fakery of Artifactery - Scott Jones

[greywolf22]

Looks like they were having some fun making that one.
Jack

[rmartin]

Actually, Pam, in some instances it could be illegal but that might be a stretch. I do recall the the first Postal Mail fraud case involved fake artifacts. And no, I wasn't around when it happened, lol. Some one please correct me if I am wrong. I cannot believe I missed this thread the first time. I think I was lurking then. I applaud you Jack for the opener and some great responses. I really feel compelled to  add more and will as soon as I can get some pics. Ray

[roustabout149]

greywolf22 wrote:

Looks like they were having some fun making that one.
Jack

  It really does, doesn't it? :lol: This is one I would have thought to be real, due to my inexperience, had I not been told otherwise.  Trickery could very well have got me here if he had told me it was authentic.  I better not be purchasing any artifacts!  Sticking to my fields and hoping to find authentic points of my own. 

[rmartin]

I hope I don't bore you with a story. Back in the late 80's I was buying and selling lots of artifacts. I got a call from a farmer to view two collections "of personal finds", his and his brother's who owned neighboring farms in a real good area. As I looked up the stuff over, I set these aside. When I made them an offer, I told them I did want these because the were Fake. They said they had been told that before and had bought them so they gave them to me.  Perino shot down the Dove saying there were too many fresh hinges( the little bit of flake that remains). Jackson shot down the Snyders. So I took most of them and buried them in the ground for about a year. Then, froze and thawed them in water  for weeks. You should have seen the hinges that popped off and it broke the Dickson. Finally, put them in a coffee can full of some vile ingredients for a year. I am sure these would not scope, but sure would fool a lot of folks 

[rmartin]

Heres the dove...Fake Fake Fake! Five inches by the way.

[rmartin]

If a Mod can help me out, put in red letters "fake on the pics. Lots of things to look for here. The Hardin like things are totally wrong in Manufacture. Basal treatment is all wrong and way to thick. The Hardin type thing in the handle I crudle made is heat treat which is totally wrong for the type. The Dickson was guilty by association.

[Hoss]

rmartin wrote:

If a Mod can help me out, put in red letters "fake on the pics. Lots of things to look for here. The Hardin like things are totally wrong in Manufacture. Basal treatment is all wrong and way to thick. The Hardin type thing in the handle I crudle made is heat treat which is totally wrong for the type. The Dickson was guilty by association.

  OK Ray altered your pics. I own a few moderns a friend of the family was a knapper. I like to look at them as Modern reproductions. List them as Modern Reproductions for study purposes only.  I do not display them with anything but modern points.

This is a Clovis Repro The Knapper was trying to replicate a Bull Brook point. West Athens Hill Site NY. The base is good but the flutes were wide on the type. This was one of his many practice points and As you can see the flute did not move as expected.

[roustabout149]

[QUOTE]Hoss wrote:

If a Mod can help me out, put in red letters "fake on the pics. Lots of things to look for here. The Hardin like things are totally wrong in Manufacture. Basal treatment is all wrong and way to thick. The Hardin type thing in the handle I crudle made is heat treat which is totally wrong for the type. The Dickson was guilty by association.

  OK Ray altered your pics. I own a few moderns a friend of the family was a knapper. I like to look at them as Modern reproductions. List them as Modern Reproductions for study purposes only.  I do not display them with anything but modern points.
  Hey, Hoss...what about mine?  It wouldn't bother me at all if you altered my pics and represented the point as, "FAKE."  How'd you do that?
Pam

[tomclark]

Thanks, GreyWolf. :cheer:   Yeah, what Scott Jones said!! :woohoo:
Thousands and thousands upon thousands. :angry:

[rmartin]

Thanks Hoss, didn't want these pics used otherwise. You are right about modern repos, but to me once they have been misrepresented they become fakes

[Hoss]

Pam I can do that but there is still a difference between yours and Rays. Your like mine was offered as a modern knapped point! Nothing fake about that it was offered as modern and you bought it. Mine was a gift I get gifts from folks who say I bought this off a knapper for you his name was _______ I then put them with my modern display. Small frame not many in it. My son has instructions to put that frame in the box with me when I skid to a halt and fall into it! Who says you can't take it with you? LOL
What I did for Ray was I down loaded the pictures to my PC then I printed the words on using Photoshop8 I then reloaded them to rays post and deleted his original picture. I would be happy to do it for you Pam. Would you like it to say fake or Modern reproduction?

[rmartin]

I agree Hoss. Reproductions become fakes when there are passed as authentic. I, too, have a few modern pieces from a couple knapper friends and its nice when they sign them as Pam's is. The ones I showed as fakes have been altered to appear old. Of course I did it as an experiment. Maybe Tom will loan me his hammer.

[Hoss]

rmartin wrote:

   Maybe Tom will loan me his hammer.

    

[painshill]

There's some really great information and pictures on this thread. Thanks everyone!
Roger

[roustabout149]

Hoss wrote:

Pam I can do that but there is still a difference between yours and Rays. Your like mine was offered as a modern knapped point! Nothing fake about that it was offered as modern and you bought it. Mine was a gift I get gifts from folks who say I bought this off a knapper for you his name was _______ I then put them with my modern display. Small frame not many in it. My son has instructions to put that frame in the box with me when I skid to a halt and fall into it! Who says you can't take it with you? LOL
What I did for Ray was I down loaded the pictures to my PC then I printed the words on using Photoshop8 I then reloaded them to rays post and deleted his original picture. I would be happy to do it for you Pam. Would you like it to say fake or Modern reproduction?

  Well, Hoss.  I misunderstood the dif between fake and modern reproduction.  I think I get it now.  It's a little confusing.  Play on words, I guess.  I just thought if the piece wasn't real...it was fake.  But, it's only fake if misrepresented as being authentic, and a modern reproduction if purchased as such.  By george, I think I got it.  Thanks, mine will be just fine as they are then!
Pam