The Fakery of Artifactery - Scott Jones

[SDhunter]

Yes, Chubb. Stick around. Jack is long gone, so don’t let his big story bother you. I wouldn’t give it a second thought.

[Hoss]

Chubb do not worry about your collection I did not see any red flags when I looked at what you posted. Usually the fakes are high dollar points. Not field graade material. Good to see you decided to stick around and read some rather than leave us.

[Chubb]

Very few of my artifacts were purchased, maybe five. The ones that I didn't find, in the field, were gifts from friends. I guess that it was the rude awakening, while reading about all of the the fake stuff out there, that spoiled a lot of it for me. Your right though, I'll just enjoy the hobby for it's good points. Sorry for the bitterness.
Chubb

[clambellies]

That's generally why I'm not too impressed with artifacts that are bought. If you or I found it, then I'm on board.

[CMD]

The more I read about our "hobby", the more "Bumfizzled" I become. This thread, has about removed any real enjoyment that I might have derived, from taking part in this great forum, and our mutual interest in " Native American Artifacts". I got back into this hobby, after leaving it lay dormant, for a long time,. I wanted to categorize, determine it's worth, and enjoy it again. I will be passing it on to my son soon. My first artifact was obtained around 1937, and the latest one about 1965. I only know the positive location of where about 20% of them were found. That means, that my meager collection, gathered over a long period of time, could possibly be 80% "FAKE". At my age 87, I don't have the time, ability, or ambition, necessary to educate myself about this great hobby. It's becoming painfully apparent, that this hobby is, like all very popular hobbies, it's all about "MONEY", and the lengths that some entrepreneurs will go, to obtain it, even if it requires making "FAKE" artifacts..

Well, sorry to hear this, Chubb. I take it most of your collection consists of purchased artifacts? I will say this. This hobby is not about money at all. For me, it's been the many memories I have created walking fields and shorelines with my wife and friends. Most especially my wife. I can pick up a point or other artifact from our collection, and I can relive the moment she or I found it. I was doing just that earlier today. These are bittersweet memories, because I can't bring yesterday back. I can't bring back my youth. But the memories feel so good as well, I can remember our joy, the hugs we shared as we celebrated. It was only yesterday, wasn't it, where has the time gone. I can see all those wonderful parts of "God's country", the many scenic spots here in Rhode Island where our hunts took us. In a few weeks, I will be getting together with other collectors from southern New England, all members of this forum. Some I know, some I will meet for the first time. They are all go-getters, dedicated surface hunters, the younger generation to me, as my active hunting career is waning. My fault! We hunted out most of the spots closest to home, or Mother Nature in the form of coastal erosion took them away. I have some purchased artifacts, even a few fakes that fooled me along the way. Hopefully you can still enjoy them, and your son will enjoy them well into the future. I would not let this old thread get a body down so much. You enjoyed the hobby for many years, don't let anything spoil your own memories.

[Chubb]

The more I read about our "hobby", the more "Bumfizzled" I become. This thread, has about removed any real enjoyment that I might have derived, from taking part in this great forum, and our mutual interest in " Native American Artifacts". I got back into this hobby, after leaving it lay dormant, for a long time,. I wanted to categorize, determine it's worth, and enjoy it again. I will be passing it on to my son soon. My first artifact was obtained around 1937, and the latest one about 1965. I only know the positive location of where about 20% of them were found. That means, that my meager collection, gathered over a long period of time, could possibly be 80% "FAKE". At my age 87, I don't have the time, ability, or ambition, necessary to educate myself about this great hobby. It's becoming painfully apparent, that this hobby is, like all very popular hobbies, it's all about "MONEY", and the lengths that some entrepreneurs will go, to obtain it, even if it requires making "FAKE" artifacts..

[roustabout149]

Hoss wrote:

Pam I can do that but there is still a difference between yours and Rays. Your like mine was offered as a modern knapped point! Nothing fake about that it was offered as modern and you bought it. Mine was a gift I get gifts from folks who say I bought this off a knapper for you his name was _______ I then put them with my modern display. Small frame not many in it. My son has instructions to put that frame in the box with me when I skid to a halt and fall into it! Who says you can't take it with you? LOL
What I did for Ray was I down loaded the pictures to my PC then I printed the words on using Photoshop8 I then reloaded them to rays post and deleted his original picture. I would be happy to do it for you Pam. Would you like it to say fake or Modern reproduction?

  Well, Hoss.  I misunderstood the dif between fake and modern reproduction.  I think I get it now.  It's a little confusing.  Play on words, I guess.  I just thought if the piece wasn't real...it was fake.  But, it's only fake if misrepresented as being authentic, and a modern reproduction if purchased as such.  By george, I think I got it.  Thanks, mine will be just fine as they are then!
Pam

[painshill]

There's some really great information and pictures on this thread. Thanks everyone!
Roger

[Hoss]

rmartin wrote:

   Maybe Tom will loan me his hammer.

    

[rmartin]

I agree Hoss. Reproductions become fakes when there are passed as authentic. I, too, have a few modern pieces from a couple knapper friends and its nice when they sign them as Pam's is. The ones I showed as fakes have been altered to appear old. Of course I did it as an experiment. Maybe Tom will loan me his hammer.

[Hoss]

Pam I can do that but there is still a difference between yours and Rays. Your like mine was offered as a modern knapped point! Nothing fake about that it was offered as modern and you bought it. Mine was a gift I get gifts from folks who say I bought this off a knapper for you his name was _______ I then put them with my modern display. Small frame not many in it. My son has instructions to put that frame in the box with me when I skid to a halt and fall into it! Who says you can't take it with you? LOL
What I did for Ray was I down loaded the pictures to my PC then I printed the words on using Photoshop8 I then reloaded them to rays post and deleted his original picture. I would be happy to do it for you Pam. Would you like it to say fake or Modern reproduction?

[rmartin]

Thanks Hoss, didn't want these pics used otherwise. You are right about modern repos, but to me once they have been misrepresented they become fakes

[tomclark]

Thanks, GreyWolf. :cheer:   Yeah, what Scott Jones said!! :woohoo:
Thousands and thousands upon thousands. :angry:

[roustabout149]

[QUOTE]Hoss wrote:

If a Mod can help me out, put in red letters "fake on the pics. Lots of things to look for here. The Hardin like things are totally wrong in Manufacture. Basal treatment is all wrong and way to thick. The Hardin type thing in the handle I crudle made is heat treat which is totally wrong for the type. The Dickson was guilty by association.

  OK Ray altered your pics. I own a few moderns a friend of the family was a knapper. I like to look at them as Modern reproductions. List them as Modern Reproductions for study purposes only.  I do not display them with anything but modern points.
  Hey, Hoss...what about mine?  It wouldn't bother me at all if you altered my pics and represented the point as, "FAKE."  How'd you do that?
Pam

[Hoss]

rmartin wrote:

If a Mod can help me out, put in red letters "fake on the pics. Lots of things to look for here. The Hardin like things are totally wrong in Manufacture. Basal treatment is all wrong and way to thick. The Hardin type thing in the handle I crudle made is heat treat which is totally wrong for the type. The Dickson was guilty by association.

  OK Ray altered your pics. I own a few moderns a friend of the family was a knapper. I like to look at them as Modern reproductions. List them as Modern Reproductions for study purposes only.  I do not display them with anything but modern points.

This is a Clovis Repro The Knapper was trying to replicate a Bull Brook point. West Athens Hill Site NY. The base is good but the flutes were wide on the type. This was one of his many practice points and As you can see the flute did not move as expected.